1911Forum banner

Need Load Recipe

13K views 66 replies 12 participants last post by  ChrisG164 
#1 ·
My gun will be back after the trigger job on Tuesday, so I'm not actually loading my cartridges yet, but I'm writing down the loads in each plastic bullet container. So far so good except for two bullets.
I checked both my Lee Handbook as well as the Hogdon website under my Powder (Winchester AutoComp)

Bullet Load needed #1 ) RNFP 147 Grain Lead

Bullet Load needed #2 ) TC 120 Grain Lead

If I'm correct, all I need to determine load recipes are the Powder, Bullet Coating or material and bullet weight, so I gave more than needed.

Any ideas of where to find proper Starting Loads and DNE Loads or how to determine them on my own?
 
#4 ·
He is talking about the Lymans 49th Edition reloading manual, not a website. A great reloading/reference manual than is invaluable if you plan to do reloading. You can not own too many reloading manuals so you can cross reference information to keep you safe.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Reload data

First of all, when you want suggestions for a reload, it is always best to explain what the caliber of ammo is for the gun. You should start the thread asking help for "9mm load suggestions" and not expect anyone to know exactly which caliber you are talking about. Some different guns use the same bullet weight....

When you use a fairly new powder, many of us long time reloaders use the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule of thumb. Once we find a load that shows good accuracy, good recoil impulse, and meets the velocity criteria we need, we usually stick with it, unless for some reason the powder is discontinued. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of experimentation to find the best load for a barrel/gun, and every barrel may not shoot the same loads as well as another barrel.

I would try to help, but have never used the powder you have on hand. You may find some load data for Win. Auto comp at: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
Just click on the "I Agree" terms in the box, you will need to click on the choice of manufactuer (click on the Winchester logo) then follow the prompts to get to the 9mm luger data. This site does show load data for Win Auto comp.
 
#10 ·
First of all, when you want suggestions for a reload, it is always best to explain what the caliber of ammo is for the gun. You should start the thread asking help for "9mm load suggestions" and not expect anyone to know exactly which caliber you are talking about. Some different guns use the same bullet weight....

When you use a fairly new powder, many of us long time reloaders use the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule of thumb. Once we find a load that shows good accuracy, good recoil impulse, and meets the velocity criteria we need, we usually stick with it, unless for some reason the powder is discontinued. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of experimentation to find the best load for a barrel/gun, and every barrel may not shoot the same loads as well as another barrel.

I would try to help, but have never used the powder you have on hand. You may find some load data for Win. Auto comp at: http://data.hodgdon.com/[url] Just ...or obvious reasons), I'm doing so right now.
 
#9 ·
Chris. Send an e-mail to hodgdon with the bullet specs and I'm sure they will supply you with the load data you are seeking within 2 business days. They got back to me the same day I had a question about a certain bullet type and powder combo.

help@hodgdon.com
 
#12 ·
Chris, please bear with us.
As Brother Rich alluded to, when we see post that are somewhat “disjointed” it makes it difficult to be concise in response.
We can only respond to what was “written” not what you thought you wrote or said.

We may be confused due to several points
As Rich mentioned, ALWAYS mention caliber as your bullets grain weights can be loaded into several different caliber cases and wildcats as well.
It is also helpful to list the COL you will be or wanting to be seating these bullets too.
As well as firearm these loadings will be used in.
(This can affect recommendations on charge weights and other factors in your loading)

You asked “Any ideas of where to find proper Starting Loads and DNE Loads or how to determine them on my own?
If you are loading for the 9MM Luger, this data is available on the Hodgdon web site?

115 GR. LRN Win AutoComp .356" 1.100" Start 4.4grs 1002 24,800 PSI Max 5.1grs 1145 31,500 PSI

125 GR. LCN Win AutoComp .356" 1.125" Start 4.3 grs 1012 26,700 PSI Max 4.8grs 1101 32,800 PSI

The data above from the Hodgdon web site list starting and maximum charge recommendations for both the 115gr and the 125gr Lead
This data can be applied to your 120gr. lead bullet.
Here you can play it on the safe side and use the 125gr. data
You asked “how to determine them (starting & max) on my own?
This is done through the “workup” routine.
Begin at the starting charge weight, increasing in a 10th of a grain increment toward the maximum listed charge weight.
(Make 10 and test before any increase in charge weight)
When “working up” the loadings, monitor for trouble signs and excessive pressure signs.
This protocol, and other “techniques” regarding safe loading procedures are clearly explained in ALL loading manuals.
(You DID read your loading manuals, right?)

For your AutoComp in 9MM, Hodgdon list data for the 147gr. but in a jacketed bullet (Hornady XTP)
All is not lost here, using the jacketed starting charge weight data would be safe to apply to your lead 147gr bullet.

147 GR. HDY XTP Win AutoComp .355" 1.100" Start 3.6grs. 827 27,900 PSI Max 4.0grs. 916 32,800 PSI

Another option for you would be to apply a powder or powders that have more “development data” available for the bullet(s) type you are using.
On the faster powder side, powders like Bullseye, Titegroup, AA No.2, AA No.5 V-V N320 and 231 will have more abundant data available.
On the slower side, powders like HS-6, Power Pistol, V-V N340, V-V N350, AA No. 7 and Blue Dot.
(The AutoComp is designed primarily for using jacketed in high performance application.)
This is why you will not see “reams” of published load data with the lead bullets you have using this powder.

Good Luck :)
 
#13 ·
Bullet Load needed #1 ) RNFP 147 Grain Lead

Bullet Load needed #2 ) TC 120 Grain Lead

115 GR. LRN Win AutoComp .356" 1.100" Start 4.4grs 1002 24,800 PSI Max 5.1grs 1145 31,500 PSI

125 GR. LCN Win AutoComp .356" 1.125" Start 4.3 grs 1012 26,700 PSI Max 4.8grs 1101 32,800 PSI
I posted for Round Nose Flat Point. I'm guessing that will be the same as what you posted for standard Round Nose ? And the same for my Truncated Cone Vs your posting of Cone Nose ?



Sorry for cutting my post short, I will comment fully on your post.. off to Church now!
 
#14 · (Edited)
Round Nose Flat Point :scratch:
(Round and Flat in the same nose...)

Truncated and Cone are "typically" interchangeable nomenclature, especially when refering to 9MM projectiles

You will have some control over the final or desired COL
As long as the firearm chamber is within the SAAMI minimum and maximum COL limits you should be able to find a comfortable COL with your bullets.


If it were me, I would try and run the 120gr between ~ 1.115” – 1.140” and the 147gr. 1.120” – 1.145” or so if the bullets shank and profile will cooperate.
Whatever gave me the most reliable cycling.
Always consider loading longer if you can, especially if they’re going to be hot.

Remember, most published COL is not “cast in stone”

Good Luck :)
 
#15 ·
First, what the hell is COL ¿¿¿
Second, how are Truncated and Cone considered interchangeable when referring to bullets when they are the exact opposite!?

and forget what you're recommending my aol to be I can worry about that after I determine how many grains of Autocomp powder I can safely start with.

Jer...I mean Gerk.. Sorry, froidian slip. JKWU ;-)
 
#19 ·
First, what the hell is COL ¿¿¿
Second, how are Truncated and Cone considered interchangeable when referring to bullets when they are the exact opposite!?

and forget what you're recommending my aol to be I can worry about that after I determine how many grains of Autocomp powder I can safely start with.

Jer...I mean Gerk.. Sorry, froidian slip. JKWU ;-)
A 'cone nose' doesn't exist as a bullet shape. That would be like a dunce cap with a point. A truncated cone is that dunce cap with the point clipped off so that the flat that is created is parallel with the base of the bullet. They are commonly referred to as 'flat points'.

The variations within that category are largely based on how far down toward the base of the cone the point is clipped off. The flat point part is called the meplat, and if it is large then it is generally referred to as a 'wide flat point'. WFP bullets generally are semi-wadcutter profile, with the full diameter lip rather a straight truncated cone shape.

Finally, COL means 'cartridge overall length', measured from the bottom of the case to the tip of the bullet. You also see it written as OAL or COAL, but it refers to the same thing. It is important in determining proper length for reliable feeding from magazines (box, tubular, and detachable).
 
#16 ·
Ok, so the main bullets i'm worried about using in my gun for either fun (price consideration is a factor moreso in this field) or competition, through my 9mm Springfield XD with 5" stock barrel are... without material being considered just yet are..
Cone Nose CN
Truncated Cone TC
Round Nose Flat Point RNFP
Semi Wadcutters SWC
Hollow Point HP

Please fill in what I've left out and then I'll add my actual question.
 
#18 ·
Yes, obviously my acronym was not meant to represent an Internet Service Provider.

The fact is, I AM learning. Take what I say with a grain of salt. Nowhere did I say that the OverAll Length was not important, I was simply more concerned/curious with the Powder Charge before worrying about how much I will need to adjust my bullet seating depth to find the optimal, safest depth.

A TC is also similar in a Semi-Wadcutter in it's flat tipped style which is why I was confused.
 
#21 ·
Bullet weights and profiles

When using cast lead bullets, the same weight of the bullet will allow the same powder charge. The overall seating depth may change due to the difference in the bullet profile. In general terms, the longer the bullet, such as a Lead Round Nose, the deeper it will seat into the case. If the bullet profile is a flat point with a shorter bullet profile, it may not seat as deep in the case, and more bearing surface of the bullet may be exposed near the case mouth unless you adjust your seating die. The same is true when using JHP bullets that are the same weight compared to a LRN bullet....the JHP with a shorter profile may require adjusting the seating depth to get more bearing surface of the bullet into the case. If you have a good reloading manual, such as the Lyman 49th edition, it will show the COAL (cartridge over all length) they used when they tested that particular round with that particular bullet profile. Flat point and JHP rounds are usually reloaded with a shorter COAL.
 
#23 ·
ihmo ..

as a newbie to hand loads, it would serve best to select tried and true components for the caliber in question, as this will make finding load recipes and components easier. easier is better for newbies.

autocomp is too new a powder to be found in most load books. i would not have selected that powder for my first load attempts. yeah, hodgdon's has autocomp loads online, as they should, because winchester powder IS a hodgdon product. but how many load manuals are showing recipes for autocomp?

all that matters with bullets is what the load recipe calls for, and what can safely be substituted.

when it comes to bullets and semi-autos, all that matters to me is what bullet type i want, what bullet hardness, what bullet shape will feed best in my gun(s), what bullet mass weight that the load recipe dictates.

rnfp is simply a round nosed bullet with a flat tip - treat it like a round nose. tc bullets cross section are a combination ogive and semi wadcutter. y'all know what an lswc is, so let's cut to the chase ... given the same caliber/bullet diameter, the same mass weight, then only bullet cross section profile is different (and *perhaps* the oal seat depth for each, as there are effective seat dimension differences for bullets based on their cross section). other than that, the real question is what bullet shape/cross section will properly feed in *my* gun? there are semi's that don't like some bullet shapes ... testing is in order.

and, always verify a dummy round with a good plunk test.

all of the above isn't rocket science, it's mostly just common sense.
 
#25 ·
"the bullets ogive profile, overall bullet length and bullet shank section length have a direct impact on what your final Cartridge Overall Length (C.O.L) will be"

A safe charge with a long OAL could become unsafe if the same bullet is seated deep. We are just trying to keep you out of trouble.
 
#26 ·
I think the OP would be much better off to start with one bullet to learn reloading. Do not start off trying to develope a load for four or five different bullets at the same time. I would have suggested starting with a 124 grain RN. It would be the most likely to feed with no problems. A beginner does not need to try and develope a load while at the same time try to diagnose feeding problems.

Get one load working, shoot a couple hundred of them, then move on to a new bullet.
 
#27 ·
It's not the said nomenclature, per se, that I have a problem with. Rather it's the conflicting ideas or jargon that I'm come across which get frustrating. For example. I see COL [which I'm going to stick with using since it's an actual proper acronym] when 72 hours ago I learned it as oal. Or that I was told previously that Bullet type (shape) is not a factor when determining the proper powder charge and later I'm being told it's crucial. Using MY brain, I feel it's not for the simple reason that COL is what it is despite the overall length of the bullet and or it's shape. Since bullet weight is not a consideration, why then should the shape be a consideration. If it's shape is related to it's length then i'll simply over or under-seat based on the specified COL within parameters of being safe and firing accurately. If it's a shorter bullet than my last one then I'll seat it shallower to reach the same COL that I had with the previous bullet. Whether it's closer to min. or max. COL is a different discussion. I'm simply trying to determine the correct steps and necessary components and measurements among (not inaccurate) different answers.
???
 
#29 ·
It doesn't really matter which particular term you use as long as you understand what that term means, and so do the people you have asked for help. If you use terminology that is not more or less common, then expect to have people ask you to clarify yourself.

Bullet weight is important. So is bullet shape. Weight determines the baseline powder charge. Simple physics: it takes X amount of energy (powder charge) to overcome the inertia of the projectile and accelerate it to a given velocity (bullet weight). Bullet shape can increase or lessen the amount of resistance of that projectile in the barrel, which involves the pressure generated by the powder burning.

Caliber also plays a part, because the bigger the bore is determines what bullet shapes work best. 9mm/.357 bore means bullets will be, of necessity, longer as weight increases. Longer means more bearing surface, which affects pressure. If you move the weight forward toward the nose of the bullet (round nose), you reduce the bearing surface somewhat due to the taper of the ogive. A cone shape puts the weight more toward the rear, increasing bearing surface. That can increase bullet seating depth as well, as increase pressure for a given weight.

In large bores like .44/.45, light weight bullets tend to have very short bearing surfaces, so you see a lot of truncated cone and SWC shapes. If you increase weight and want to avoid having to seat too deep, that weight goes into the nose, and you tend to get heavy round nose and wide SWC profiles.

All this stuff is affected as well by COL (think in terms of cylinder length in a revolver, or what fits in a magazine in an auto-loader). Increase bullet weight within a length restriction context, and by necessity you have to seat the bullet deeper. That increases pressure, and max pressure limits how much powder you use for that weight.

Point being, all of this is interrelated. There are no simple answers. You have to learn the terminology, and how changing one variable - say bullet shape - can affect the other parts of the equation. You got good advice when somebody said to start with one bullet and one powder. When you know what that combo does when you change seating depth up or down, or change the charge, then you're ready to start changing bullets, or trying different powders. What you seem to be doing at this point is trying to oversimplify things too much. That is going to do nothing but frustrate you. Take your time. We've all been through this, and it does get easier as you learn.
 
#28 ·
Allan. I'm more concerned with the process then the activity at the moment. And yes, Made some 125 grain RN cartridges. Can do a plunk test on Tues. when gun is back from PRP. I can't exactly shoot in my backyard, so going to the range with only one cartridge to "try out" isn't all that efficient. Respectfully.
 
#30 ·
Wow, ignore my last post. I was half awake when posting that and have no idea why I ignored bullet weight.. Especially since it's the first thing considered when prepping your press for a cartridge. Sorry, sometimes I surprise even myself with stupidity.

EDIT: Anyway, what I DIDNT screw up was my thoughts on bullet shape and it's consideration in throwing a load (that didn't sound right).
 
#31 ·
BTW, in reference to a lot of our conversation.. This was taken from the "Basic Reloading" Sticky posted by cfi542


look up the cartridge you're working on and consult the tables until you find the one for the weight bullet you're using. the bullet they describe may not be identical to what you're using, but the only really important thing is that the weight is the same.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Refering to data for non identical bullets, I would not agree that the "only" thing to be concerned about is weight. Weight is the most important thing. But the seating depth can have a major effect on pressure. Not the COL, but the position of the base of the bullet. That determines the volume that the powder occupies in the case. Bullets of the same weight but different shapes will probably be a different length. So even if seated to the same COL the base of the bullet will be seated to a different depth in the case. Changes in seating depth will have a major effect on pressure.
 
#37 ·
My point is that relying on COL when changing to a different bullet style can create a dangerous situation. The COL listed in a manual applies to the specific bullet used to obtain that data.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top