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10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?)

20K views 77 replies 38 participants last post by  Rifter 
#1 · (Edited)
I myself carry the winchester 175gr silvertip in my stainless target 2, the ammo shoots nice not a bad recoil. Its been a while since I looked to see if there are any newer or better offerings for the 10mm in a self defense round to be used in an urban areas, where sometimes I wonder/worry if the 175gr will be a liability issue. When I go out walking thru the woods I tend to carry buffalo bore 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN (1,200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.) where the penetration ( I have shot the norma stuff & I even have a trophy box on my shelf) is more need incase I happen across some type of 4-legged friend. Like I said I was just wondering if there was anything better out there today i should be considering......
G
 
#2 · (Edited)
.

Years ago went through Jeff Cooper's Gunsite advanced pistol course using a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm. Used Norma factory 200-grain FMJ at its 1,200 fps velocity. It really knocked the pepper poppers down fast and had a flat trajectory for the 100 yard steel targets.

In South Africa, one PH used a full-house 10mm with 200-grain non-expanding bullets at 1,200 fps on game animals. Saw him shoot a 54+ inch kudu with one. A one shot stop. He used the 10mm a lot for camp meat animals and for culling operations. When he used a rifle for this, he used either a 22 Hornet or a 7 x 57 Mauser. But he liked the 10mm Auto pistol. Last time I saw him, he had just gotten 1,000 new 10mm empty cases for loading.

(His partner used a first generation 44 Special Colt SAA with Keith loads for culling and had a nice collection of burst cylinders from experimentation.)

Though I carry a 45 Super a lot these days, when I do carry the 10mm, I still carry 200-grain bullets at 1,200 fps.

.
 
#3 ·
Heres a HP 10mm slow motion through gel..I use Double Tap in my 10mm w/135gr Nosler JHP @ 1600fps and 767ft lb energy.. Kills black pigs dead where a 45 might take 2-3.. My EDC SD in a CBOB .45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z49Lbnt16M
 
#4 ·
Question please...

Considering a semi-auto for Hunting / Field defense here in Texas (Hogs, Cats, etc...) Would love to hear opinions on the 10mm vs. say the .40 for this particular purpose. I am familiar with the differences and the background on these two, but was hoping to hear from folks who own or know these two rounds.

I plan on a polymer pistol that I can litteraly treat like my lawnmower - but something that packs the right punch (enough punch) and not something that "should" do the trick. Not intersted in a revolver as the various MAG rounds would easily do the trick, just asking between these two rounds is all.

Thanks in advance.
 
#6 ·
Here is a chrono comparison of the 40 and 10mm through polymer pistols.
Glock 27 (3 1/2'' barrel) Speer Gold Dot 155 gr. @ 1,134 fps / 442# KE
Glock 23 (4'' barrel) Speer Gold Dot 155 gr. @ 1,171 fps / 472# KE

Glock 29 (3 3/4'' barrel) Hornady 155 gr. XTP @ 1,279 fps / 563# KE

Gold Dots are a hot 40 S&W load compared to others, for example:
Glock 27 (3 1/2'' barrel) Winchester 155 gr. Silvertip @ 1,090 fps / 409# KE

The Hornady 10mm load is not very hot compared to some others, but it's all I've got and I think it would make a good SD load.
 
#5 ·
Although I've never actually carried it, I've loaded Norma 135JHPs to about 1400fps, and would use that as a defense load for two-legged varmints. For four-legged, I'd go with a 200gr JTC at 1200fps.
 
#7 ·
I've had a Delta Elite since 1987 and after a little tweaking, it's been my favorite gun. For personal defense, there's nothing wrong with the Silvertips. HydraShocks are my other choice and recently I've acquired some Hornady 165gr FTX as well. If you're worried about the liability of over penetration in a defensive shooting situation, Glasers are the only product to really address that and of course they can have problems with heavy clothing clogging them up. I carry the HydraShocks most of the time as the muzzle flash seems less blinding than the Silvertips in the dark. In a "keep shooting until they're down" situation, I think the ability to see follow up shots is more important.
 
#8 ·
CDW4ME - thank you very much for the input. Zactly what I was hoping to see. Been all over the web looking at various ballistics charts. But wanted to hear from someone with experience - so again I appreciate the input.

I guess I am trying to talk myslef into a .40 for a job where the 10mm will absolutely work. Problem is I am not into the Glock all that much yet like the M&P series. S&W M&P however do not, and will not, make a 10mm. So perhaps I wait for the Gen 4 G20 to arrive and see how that feels. Likley the SF frame as well.
 
#9 ·
Has anyone had an expierence with the 135gr double tap, or even the 135gr/150gr corbon ammo. I realize I'm looking for some what of a "fine" line between over penetration & the ability to neutralize a two legged threat quickly, while using a "true" 10mm load. I'm trying to limit bullet penetration by reducing the weight of the bullet itself
I have carried & used the hydro-shock ammo, but I just feel they're down loaded too much
G
 
#11 · (Edited)
Double Tap is an absolute waste of money, and the company ought to be sued for false advertising.

Spend some time on Youtube after searching on "10mm Double Tap Chrono" or something similar. Simply put -- they lie. And it's not just out of a 10mm, either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nNXtvBhneM&feature=related

Results can be off by as much as 200-400 fps. in some calibers.

Feel free to do a similar search on any caliber you like, and see the results. Multiple independent sources show that the numbers offered by DT are inflated.
 
#12 ·
I carry the 175 gr. Winchester Silvertips. No, the Silvertip isn't a super duper high tech bullet design, but it is a load that is reliable, and accurate out of my G20, and I am sure it would do the job just fine if I ever had to use it in self defense.
 
#15 ·
I looked at the specs for a lot of factory ammo, and really couldn't see the benefit of 10mm over 40 cal when using it for SD against people. Sure, you could load it with something non-factory, but it seems almost as if 10mm has been watered-down so much (or perhaps the full-house loads are overkill for SD).

For hogs and such, I can see it. Otherwise, is there really any benefit to carrying 10mm for SD?
 
#18 ·
Has anyone had any experience with the double tap 10mm 165gr brass jacketed hollow point? ( I see they have them listed as using the golden saber bullet)I've always had a soft spot for the golden saber bullet, I have them in a few calibers & they always functioned well feeding & so on.... just wondering if anyone out there has tried them
G
 
#31 ·
Wow to think all of this is from me asking " 10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?) " . I would think the battle of the best should be between
9mm, 10mm ( 10mm since it is/was the topic) & the 45 acp, if we were to include the caliber that this post was first started for.
I have since ordered a few different types of ammo to try out against the time tested 10mm STHP I like to carry. I'm hoping they come in soon for me to try
G
 
#36 ·
It's pretty rare to have animal problems around these parts, but I've run into cougar--and literally almost ran into a black bear on my mountain bike last year. I like to go fairly light though, so hand cannons are out. That's why I've been thinking about a G29.
 
#37 ·
I like the 1911 platform because its so thin, I know 15 are better than 9....
I had a G20 but the double stack made it a bit wide + heavier with the extra
rounds in the mag, so I bought a kimber 1911 full size which is pretty easy to conceal believe it or not... I too carry mine out in the woods of northern pa with the B.B. hard cast ammo .. just incase there's any issues with black bear. They usually go lumbering away from when they see me & in my parts they are not all that big. I just like having the ability or what I believe the ablilty is to have the upper hand if need be against a 200/250 pissed off animal.( I would hate to count on a 40 s&w for this purpose)
 
#40 ·
I actually carry the 175 gr silver tip for " self defense" now. I've also order some double tap 165gr brass jacketed hollow points ( golden saber bullet) to try them out & yes I've seen the mixed reviews here and a few other places about them. I would like to try a box for myself so I can decide if they're "right" for me or not. I also see that double tap offers a few hard cast loads too...

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_25
 
#43 ·
What's the story about shooting lead in a polygonal barrel, like the G29? That BB 220gr lead FN would seem to be a great backcountry load, but will it work well in a stock Glock barrel?
 
#46 ·
Both Buffalo Bore and Double Tap sell HARDCAST lead bullets that will function in Glock barrels. The trouble was with soft cast or swaged lead bullets in Glock barrels. I shoot DT 200 gr WFN lead ammo in my G23 and G27without any problems. Some cast bullets use a target alloy with a BHN of around 12 while Beartooth and Double Tap cast bullets with a BHN of 21-22. Double Tap casts their own hardcast bullets and Buffalo Bore uses commercially available hardcast bullets. I forgot who their supplier is but it is in the same BHN range. If you choose the 230 gr hardcast 10mm bullets by Double Tap use an aftermarket barrel as the heavy bullets won't stabilize in Glock barrels but are very accurate in barrels with conventional rifling. If you try to use Glock barrels with the 230 gr bullets you will get patterns, not groups. The 200 gr 40 S&W DT hardcast WFN ammo makes even my G27 a good trail gun. A 200 gr WFN with a meplat larger than any commercial 45 ACP ammo at 1000 fps is nothing to sneeze at.
 
#64 ·
^^^^^^
THIS!

If you don't handload, Underwood is the place for REAL 10mm loads. I have personally shot the 165, 180 and 135 JHPs out of my G20. Very hot stuff, compared to the watered-down-to-40 S&W-stuff you get from most of the big names. (Nothing wrong with a 40, but not what I bought a 10mm for...)

The SD load I've settled on is the 135 (which is a Nosler) grain load @ 1600 fps. This is my nightstand gun, equipped w/night sights & CT Railmaster laser.

Now, on to the price of said ammo......Double Tap is pretty close to $1 per round, for their most generic loads, and quite a bit over for some of the fancier stuff. Buffalo Bore, same thing. Right now, Underwood 135's are about $28 for a box of 50. Compare that to The cheapest 10mm you can find "off the shelf", shall we say....Blazer aluminum case (I've seen it for about $30/50), is not even comparable, other than it's still a 10mm. Sure, it cost's to get it shipped, but if you have friends who shoot, it's easy to go together and split shipping. Now, if I could only get my dealer to stock Underwood.......
 
#51 ·
quiztory

Mike's forgotten more about 10mm loading than most all will ever know....
Mmmmm....no.

Might I suggest the 175g Silvertip as an excellent choice; decent flash/filth signature, normally excellent accuracy, controllable, and reliable in function.
Average velocity from numerous barrel lengths shows an easy 1200fps (tested; not "read on internet").

IMO optimum non-cop SD choice: 135g Nosler at 1380--1450fps.
IMO optimum critter-banger choice: 175g Silvertip.
IMO optimum bear-type choice: BuffaloBore; contact them direct for discussion of personal need.

IME best choice: my in-the-day stuff (no longer available) :cool:
 
#62 ·
Mmmmm....no.

Might I suggest the 175g Silvertip as an excellent choice; decent flash/filth signature, normally excellent accuracy, controllable, and reliable in function.
Average velocity from numerous barrel lengths shows an easy 1200fps (tested; not "read on internet").

IMO optimum non-cop SD choice: 135g Nosler at 1380--1450fps.
IMO optimum critter-banger choice: 175g Silvertip.
IMO optimum bear-type choice: BuffaloBore; contact them direct for discussion of personal need.

IME best choice: my in-the-day stuff (no longer available) :cool:
if your roll your own is long gone care to share your best 175gr or heavy load data?
or at least the powder you used.
thanks
pete
 
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